UKT Rankings Updated

Comments

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	Antmoo 16:02 20/7/2003	weee #;0 lookin good [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	cobbeh fluid element 16:04 20/7/2003	really good idea this ranking system, pld zeni [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	cobbeh fluid element 16:05 20/7/2003	shud have the logos for the clans like gotfrag :P [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Velta Professional Gamer 16:12 20/7/2003	Nice work zeNi. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	ZaG Online Multiplayer Gaming 16:31 20/7/2003	nothing for Savage League ? :< [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Choke\|MaT Choke 16:33 20/7/2003	csgn season 1 hasnt finsihed... the Champions Cup decides the winner which starts in 8 days. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	arsen Head Arse UKTerrorist 16:38 20/7/2003	Cup will be added as a seperate competition (I think). [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Choke\|MaT Choke 16:41 20/7/2003	and zag's right savage should be included - you've given it enough publicity every week witht he results. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	fez 16:43 20/7/2003	top bombing! [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Scam 16:51 20/7/2003	what MaT said ;o) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Scam 16:52 20/7/2003	err, the first time :P [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 16:52 20/7/2003	Explain to me why you get more points for winning the qualifier for wcg than for finishing 5th in the actual competition ? Surely they realise the different levels of competition at the events ? I think they need to actually take into account the level of difficulty of the competition rather than just the literal placings. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	DArtagnan Infinity-eSports 16:54 20/7/2003	If you want a good ranking system, just use cyberleagues.org. That takes into account every proper official match played, and is as accurate as you can get. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Fox ClanNEW 16:56 20/7/2003	thats all french [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Lyo` eSports.Edge 17:00 20/7/2003	do u want ED to be included as well MaT so you can get more than 3 pts [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Anisty- Prozac 17:01 20/7/2003	xtra.uk didnt rename to imminent. the squad that was xtra.uk left for imminent. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	w00kie euthanasia 17:02 20/7/2003	antmoo is now in LC, LC should get anthr 100000points :D [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Messiah Game2XS.Monkey Magic 17:03 20/7/2003	he didnt say they renamed. he said thay have been renamed on the list. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	arsen Head Arse UKTerrorist 17:06 20/7/2003	What messiah said. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Atemi ForsakeN 17:10 20/7/2003	yes Savage league should be included, i dunno bout including the CSGN championship thing cos would u include both the championship thing and the division placements or just one and not the other? also clan logos on the table is a good idea like gotfrag [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	raizbert 17:11 20/7/2003	i dont see how winning UK4 and winning a $6000 purse at ESWC can give the same points [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	arsen Head Arse UKTerrorist 17:12 20/7/2003	I think zeNi may have just missed Savage out, will most likely be included in the next update. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	danneh 17:13 20/7/2003	cyberleagues site is pretty decent and seems to be kept relatively upto date [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Evd 17:23 20/7/2003	you need to add PS2002 btw, seems to be missing [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	arsen Head Arse UKTerrorist 17:27 20/7/2003	Nah, it was too long ago to be included. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	MagiciaN^ Jay Bee Eye! 17:38 20/7/2003	i think zeni is a muppet .... everyone ALWAYS whines about rankings ... why do it to urself :x [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 17:38 20/7/2003	Cyberleagues looks like a pretty good system but we don't have time to log every match. Ours is a reasonably decent UK-only ranking. KD: there's always going to be a bias towards UK-only competitions in these rankings. It might seem like 4k don't get as many points for their placing as they should but don't forget they were the only UK clan there, so it's points that no other clan is getting. Plus if you think about it the total points they got for that event are the points from the qualifiers plus the actual event. This system is tweakable, so if you don't think the rankings reflect the current standings of the scene then say. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Atemi ForsakeN 17:42 20/7/2003	wot i was gonna say alpha, was scared at getting screamed at. Teams that win qualifiers end up getting a lot more points than the others cos they then get even more for the actual event which consists of no other uk teams, as they were the ones who won the qualifier, so to give them more points than they are getting now for things like cpl and eswc, would just make the table innacurate imo and would just be 4k at the top with everyone else about 1000 points behind [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	fsk twisted Reality 17:50 20/7/2003	i think the rankings r fine! [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:04 20/7/2003	So why do you include the events with no other uk teams at all ? Just because a clan doesnt compete in UK competitions doesnt make them worse than the UK clans. You could call these rankings success in UK competitions but it is in no way accurate to suggest that these are reflective of the relative skills of the clans. A clan that competed in lots of low skill events in the UK therefore would have more points than a team that concentrated mainly on international events. For example the qualifiers for the WCG were held all around the world and therefore the best teams of all the countries involved will be there. I dont think that you can possibly argue that the level of competition at the WCG was lower than at the UK qualifier. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 18:17 20/7/2003	So why do you include the events with no other uk teams at all ? Because clans such as 4k quite often go to international events in place of UK events, so if we only included UK events the rankings wouldn't reflect the real life standings. A clan that competed in lots of low skill events in the UK therefore would have more points than a team that concentrated mainly on international events. No, because international points (plus qualifiers) give more points than UK-only events. That's why 4k are at the top of the rankings at the moment. I dont think that you can possibly argue that the level of competition at the WCG was lower than at the UK qualifier. When have I suggested that? A clan gets more points for coming 4th at WCG than they do for coming 4th at the qualifiers. This is a moot discussion unless you feel the current rankings aren't reflective of the current UK scene. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:23 20/7/2003	It just seems your making up the points to keep the clans in there relative spots why bother having a points system at all ? "When have I suggested that? A clan gets more points for coming 4th at WCG than they do for coming 4th at the qualifiers." World Cyber Games 2002 18 World Cyber Games Qualifier 25 Right there. Anyone can see that coming first in the qualifier is nowhere near the achievement that coming 5th in the actual event is. Especially considering the competition at the events. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Messiah Game2XS.Monkey Magic 18:27 20/7/2003	Hes got a point! [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:28 20/7/2003	Its true the points system doesnt directly state that the level of competition is the same, or worse, at the different events (ignore my comment :P) but it still isnt close to being realistic. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Ripper Rush! 18:32 20/7/2003	[6:31pm] tX^m0rf`off: how come ranking have not been given for i16? [6:32pm] Ripper^: because i16 was full of merc teams [6:32pm] Ripper^: /crap teams [6:32pm] tX^m0rf`off: so thats fair to us that went and did well [6:32pm] Ripper^: yes [6:32pm] Ripper^: very fair [6:32pm] Ripper^: :0 [6:33pm] tX^m0rf`off: we dont [6:33pm] Ripper^: only winners get points for i events anyway [6:33pm] tX^m0rf`off: if we had new we would have got f*** all ranking from it [6:33pm] tX^m0rf`off: we would not have spend £60 each to go [6:33pm] Ripper^: LOL you spent 60 quid to get into the rankings? [6:33pm] tX^m0rf`off: yeah [6:34pm] Ripper^: should have won the tournament then bucky [6:34pm] tX^m0rf`off: why ele would we want to go to a craply run lan [6:34pm] Ripper^: like i said only winners get points for i events [6:34pm] Ripper^: so even if i16 did count [6:34pm] Ripper^: you would have got nothing [6:35pm] Ripper^: i could have to,d you that before you went if you asked [6:35pm] Ripper^: would have said you 60 quid :-EEE [6:35pm] (?) tX^m0rf`off (~d0t@M0rf.users.quakenet.org) leaves #ukterrorist (#ukterrorist) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	deebo Mel Gibson UKTerrorist 18:36 20/7/2003	whoever claimed this was a fool proof system or an ACCURATE way to judge and rate UK clans? No one? So who cares? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:39 20/7/2003	rofl so why bother ? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	MagiciaN^ Jay Bee Eye! 18:43 20/7/2003	World Cyber Games 2002 18 World Cyber Games Qualifier 25 to play in wcg2002 they got the 25 points to qualify so basically u can say that the 5th place earned them 38 points .... which seems ok to me [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:47 20/7/2003	According to alphas logic if a UK team that theyd humped at the qualifier showed up at WCG then theyd get more points for placing exactly the same place just because there was UK competition there... Maybe if it was 18 points for the qualifier and 25 for the WCG it would be more realistic, its all about the relative level of the competition not just the fact that they got more points because they managed to qualify. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:48 20/7/2003	But as deebo said they apparently arent trying to make them realistic or accurate at all its just for s***s and giggles or something :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	deebo Mel Gibson UKTerrorist 18:52 20/7/2003	nah mate its a rough yardstick, not a proven scientific measure. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 18:53 20/7/2003	why bother having a points system at all ? To show how the rankings are calculated, and to show how far clans are from the clan above and below them. Anyone can see that coming first in the qualifier is nowhere near the achievement that coming 5th in the actual event is. Especially considering the competition at the events. As I said, these are UK rankings so there's a bias towards UK competitions (i.e. where other UK clans are involved). If this was an international rankings system a lot more points would be awarded for the international competitions. Don't look at it in terms of individual events, think of the qualifiers as part of the main event. So qualifiers - 25, WCG 2002 (overall) 43. 4k already have the point advantage over the other UK clans for winning the qualifier. If we then gave them 100 or so points for coming 4th in the competition (that no other UK clans were attending), they'd be unrealistically ahead of everyone else. zeNi designed the system so hopefully he can explain it a little better than I can. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	enuex 18:55 20/7/2003	agreed with raizbert - 5th @ ESWC should be worth much more than 1st @ a UKT LAN, rather than just 1 pt, the competition and international recognition (and moneh) is much greater for ESWC... [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 19:02 20/7/2003	So it is infact just how well clans do at UK events not how good the clans are ? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 19:09 20/7/2003	It's designed to show how good UK clans are relative to each other. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 19:11 20/7/2003	But it doesnt. I thought we'd established that already ? :P [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 19:15 20/7/2003	So in what way are you saying the current rankings don't reflect the UK scene? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 19:24 20/7/2003	The rankings may be roughly correct but as I said why bother having a points system if your just choosing the points based on the UK competition which in no way reflects the actual difficulty of the event. But as your just refusing to accept anything I'm saying I don't see much point in arguing this without end :P Im just saying what I see as faults in the system whether you accept the criticism is entirely up to you... [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 19:33 20/7/2003	I do see what you're saying, we had this discussion in the staff channel earlier. The points given do reflect the difficulty of the events, but delibrately less so in the international competitions as there's usually only one UK clan there. We include the international competitions because clans often go to these in place of UK events, and because their placing at these events is an achievement in itself and puts them head and shoulders above the other UK clans. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Aunt 19:36 20/7/2003	hmm just take it as an overall points qual + event [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Otis Rush! 19:53 20/7/2003	you only have to look at that ranking table to realise its total bs ;/ nm good that someone made an effort but going to i16 to get points?!? pls [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	-m0o.Rob- 19:55 20/7/2003	KD's point is completely right why dont you just admit to someones constructive critisism for once [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	cobbeh fluid element 19:57 20/7/2003	maybe there should just be a 'uk' system and 'international' system, kinda like home/away [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	cobbeh fluid element 19:59 20/7/2003	basically events that only include uk teams should be in the uk ranking and the internation is things like CB Open Cup, CPL, etc [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Smittins 20:02 20/7/2003	lol points from an i-series tourney, quality [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Choke\|MaT Choke 20:03 20/7/2003	Atemi: I dunno bout including the CSGN championship thing cos would u include both the championship thing and the division placements or just one and not the other? The championship cup decides who wins CSGN Season 1, not the invite premiership, so that should be used in the rankings really. Season 1 isn't over yet...... [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Otis Rush! 20:07 20/7/2003	oh and KD is completely correct. The points idea seems to be just picked out randomly and the positions and points bare very little representation on actual reality. So what if 4K end up miles ahead of every other clan because of large international events. That maybe because they are miles ahead of every other clan... Just to show you how much nonsense the rankings are there is a merc team in the top20 :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 20:07 20/7/2003	Rob I've answered his points, and explained why I think the system works how it does. Most people seem to agree that the end result is reasonable. What is your point exactly? Smittens: i16 wasn't included. Otis: if the rankings are so wildly different to actual reality what do you think the current order/points should be? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Psy^ xtreme9.uk 20:08 20/7/2003	I-eS actually got 25 + 18 for their ranking. They couldn't have got to the WCG without winning the qualifiers, therefore they couldnt have got 18 without winning the initialy 25. So it comes down to 4K actually gettin 43 [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Psy^ xtreme9.uk 20:11 20/7/2003	and lol at a clan spending £300 to get their name on a ranking website. :( [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Turk1sh 20:15 20/7/2003	coolies but some of those teams aint alive anymore [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Turk1sh 20:16 20/7/2003	my bad they do lol :D [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	deebo Mel Gibson UKTerrorist 20:55 20/7/2003	why not just give 4K a bijillion points and be done with it. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 21:21 20/7/2003	Its not about 4k..its just easiest way to demonstrate the point because of their position. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Necroboy fightclubclan 21:55 20/7/2003	What about clanbase opencup 2003? you adding it when its finished? Cus all the uk clans out already yeah? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Stono 22:06 20/7/2003	I did ask that the winners of the CSGN Cup be given the points... ill talk to UKTerrorist [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Stono 22:18 20/7/2003	Cup will be added as a seperate competition (I think). unless that is true, in which case it will be ok :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	AirHorN #Game2XS 23:19 20/7/2003	the CUP means nowt though just a chance for lower div to play others, most prem teams can beat the other teams imo [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Atemi ForsakeN 00:35 21/7/2003	ye will be a bit stupid should say a team who came 2nd in csgn prem get no points and then a team comes say 3rd in the championship cup thing cos 2nd in the prem is much more an achievement than the team who say comes 3rd in the cup thing that beat aload of mediocre clans in divison 4 or wotever. oh and ripper it aint just winners of i-events who get points cos we got 6 i think for 3rd at i15, dunno if thats a mistake tho or not. pls dont mention it to zeni, dont wanna think we wasted our 60 quid [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Myers Saviour of UKT UKTerrorist 00:51 21/7/2003	I agree with KD here, but cba to complain about it anymore :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Choke\|MaT Choke 03:12 21/7/2003	yeah airhorn, but most of the div1 teams were better than half of the ones in the "invite" premiership imo. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Ripper Rush! 10:34 21/7/2003	only teams any of div1 were better than were so19 and kensai, rest were all better and deserved to be in the premier. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	AirHorN #Game2XS 11:24 21/7/2003	wot atemi said in first para ^ but yeah i agree a few teams from div1 shoulda been in the invite but u cant give out points for a crappy end of season mess about ( known as a cup). lc > the rest imo. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	raizbert 12:56 21/7/2003	i-series is about one thing. watered down krony for £1.50 :D [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Scara North & South 13:03 21/7/2003	North & South rock :D [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	nerf Clan ONE 13:11 21/7/2003	I fully agree with Alpha. The system is not 100% perfect (what system could be?), but the end result appears to be a decent estimation. You can pick holes in it here and there, but I think it does the job well enough. The rankings don't actually mean much/anything, it's just nice to have. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Ripper Rush! 13:12 21/7/2003	thats where you're wrong nerph, if people are willing to spend 60 quid to get into the rankings then they must be worth it!? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	nerf Clan ONE 13:52 21/7/2003	touché Ripphar [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	N3M- endeffect 22:42 21/7/2003	Sorry but where is the logic in saying i16 doesnt count because majority were mix teams then add kirby esports? :o i was under impression that they were a mix team for ukt :s Barcodes 5th yey :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Stono 17:10 22/7/2003	AirHorN its not an end of season cup its how CSGN works The idea is if a clan was missplaced it gives them the chance to win overall. Its gives everyone, regarless of division a chance to win CSGN Surly if a clan from division 1 beats the premier winners they deserve to win CSGN? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]

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	Antmoo 16:02 20/7/2003	weee #;0 lookin good [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	cobbeh fluid element 16:04 20/7/2003	really good idea this ranking system, pld zeni [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	cobbeh fluid element 16:05 20/7/2003	shud have the logos for the clans like gotfrag :P [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Velta Professional Gamer 16:12 20/7/2003	Nice work zeNi. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	ZaG Online Multiplayer Gaming 16:31 20/7/2003	nothing for Savage League ? :< [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Choke\|MaT Choke 16:33 20/7/2003	csgn season 1 hasnt finsihed... the Champions Cup decides the winner which starts in 8 days. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	arsen Head Arse UKTerrorist 16:38 20/7/2003	Cup will be added as a seperate competition (I think). [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Choke\|MaT Choke 16:41 20/7/2003	and zag's right savage should be included - you've given it enough publicity every week witht he results. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	fez 16:43 20/7/2003	top bombing! [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Scam 16:51 20/7/2003	what MaT said ;o) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Scam 16:52 20/7/2003	err, the first time :P [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 16:52 20/7/2003	Explain to me why you get more points for winning the qualifier for wcg than for finishing 5th in the actual competition ? Surely they realise the different levels of competition at the events ? I think they need to actually take into account the level of difficulty of the competition rather than just the literal placings. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	DArtagnan Infinity-eSports 16:54 20/7/2003	If you want a good ranking system, just use cyberleagues.org. That takes into account every proper official match played, and is as accurate as you can get. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Fox ClanNEW 16:56 20/7/2003	thats all french [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Lyo` eSports.Edge 17:00 20/7/2003	do u want ED to be included as well MaT so you can get more than 3 pts [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Anisty- Prozac 17:01 20/7/2003	xtra.uk didnt rename to imminent. the squad that was xtra.uk left for imminent. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	w00kie euthanasia 17:02 20/7/2003	antmoo is now in LC, LC should get anthr 100000points :D [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Messiah Game2XS.Monkey Magic 17:03 20/7/2003	he didnt say they renamed. he said thay have been renamed on the list. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	arsen Head Arse UKTerrorist 17:06 20/7/2003	What messiah said. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Atemi ForsakeN 17:10 20/7/2003	yes Savage league should be included, i dunno bout including the CSGN championship thing cos would u include both the championship thing and the division placements or just one and not the other? also clan logos on the table is a good idea like gotfrag [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	raizbert 17:11 20/7/2003	i dont see how winning UK4 and winning a $6000 purse at ESWC can give the same points [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	arsen Head Arse UKTerrorist 17:12 20/7/2003	I think zeNi may have just missed Savage out, will most likely be included in the next update. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	danneh 17:13 20/7/2003	cyberleagues site is pretty decent and seems to be kept relatively upto date [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Evd 17:23 20/7/2003	you need to add PS2002 btw, seems to be missing [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	arsen Head Arse UKTerrorist 17:27 20/7/2003	Nah, it was too long ago to be included. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	MagiciaN^ Jay Bee Eye! 17:38 20/7/2003	i think zeni is a muppet .... everyone ALWAYS whines about rankings ... why do it to urself :x [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 17:38 20/7/2003	Cyberleagues looks like a pretty good system but we don't have time to log every match. Ours is a reasonably decent UK-only ranking. KD: there's always going to be a bias towards UK-only competitions in these rankings. It might seem like 4k don't get as many points for their placing as they should but don't forget they were the only UK clan there, so it's points that no other clan is getting. Plus if you think about it the total points they got for that event are the points from the qualifiers plus the actual event. This system is tweakable, so if you don't think the rankings reflect the current standings of the scene then say. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Atemi ForsakeN 17:42 20/7/2003	wot i was gonna say alpha, was scared at getting screamed at. Teams that win qualifiers end up getting a lot more points than the others cos they then get even more for the actual event which consists of no other uk teams, as they were the ones who won the qualifier, so to give them more points than they are getting now for things like cpl and eswc, would just make the table innacurate imo and would just be 4k at the top with everyone else about 1000 points behind [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	fsk twisted Reality 17:50 20/7/2003	i think the rankings r fine! [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:04 20/7/2003	So why do you include the events with no other uk teams at all ? Just because a clan doesnt compete in UK competitions doesnt make them worse than the UK clans. You could call these rankings success in UK competitions but it is in no way accurate to suggest that these are reflective of the relative skills of the clans. A clan that competed in lots of low skill events in the UK therefore would have more points than a team that concentrated mainly on international events. For example the qualifiers for the WCG were held all around the world and therefore the best teams of all the countries involved will be there. I dont think that you can possibly argue that the level of competition at the WCG was lower than at the UK qualifier. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 18:17 20/7/2003	So why do you include the events with no other uk teams at all ? Because clans such as 4k quite often go to international events in place of UK events, so if we only included UK events the rankings wouldn't reflect the real life standings. A clan that competed in lots of low skill events in the UK therefore would have more points than a team that concentrated mainly on international events. No, because international points (plus qualifiers) give more points than UK-only events. That's why 4k are at the top of the rankings at the moment. I dont think that you can possibly argue that the level of competition at the WCG was lower than at the UK qualifier. When have I suggested that? A clan gets more points for coming 4th at WCG than they do for coming 4th at the qualifiers. This is a moot discussion unless you feel the current rankings aren't reflective of the current UK scene. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:23 20/7/2003	It just seems your making up the points to keep the clans in there relative spots why bother having a points system at all ? "When have I suggested that? A clan gets more points for coming 4th at WCG than they do for coming 4th at the qualifiers." World Cyber Games 2002 18 World Cyber Games Qualifier 25 Right there. Anyone can see that coming first in the qualifier is nowhere near the achievement that coming 5th in the actual event is. Especially considering the competition at the events. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Messiah Game2XS.Monkey Magic 18:27 20/7/2003	Hes got a point! [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:28 20/7/2003	Its true the points system doesnt directly state that the level of competition is the same, or worse, at the different events (ignore my comment :P) but it still isnt close to being realistic. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Ripper Rush! 18:32 20/7/2003	[6:31pm] tX^m0rf`off: how come ranking have not been given for i16? [6:32pm] Ripper^: because i16 was full of merc teams [6:32pm] Ripper^: /crap teams [6:32pm] tX^m0rf`off: so thats fair to us that went and did well [6:32pm] Ripper^: yes [6:32pm] Ripper^: very fair [6:32pm] Ripper^: :0 [6:33pm] tX^m0rf`off: we dont [6:33pm] Ripper^: only winners get points for i events anyway [6:33pm] tX^m0rf`off: if we had new we would have got f*** all ranking from it [6:33pm] tX^m0rf`off: we would not have spend £60 each to go [6:33pm] Ripper^: LOL you spent 60 quid to get into the rankings? [6:33pm] tX^m0rf`off: yeah [6:34pm] Ripper^: should have won the tournament then bucky [6:34pm] tX^m0rf`off: why ele would we want to go to a craply run lan [6:34pm] Ripper^: like i said only winners get points for i events [6:34pm] Ripper^: so even if i16 did count [6:34pm] Ripper^: you would have got nothing [6:35pm] Ripper^: i could have to,d you that before you went if you asked [6:35pm] Ripper^: would have said you 60 quid :-EEE [6:35pm] (?) tX^m0rf`off (~d0t@M0rf.users.quakenet.org) leaves #ukterrorist (#ukterrorist) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	deebo Mel Gibson UKTerrorist 18:36 20/7/2003	whoever claimed this was a fool proof system or an ACCURATE way to judge and rate UK clans? No one? So who cares? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:39 20/7/2003	rofl so why bother ? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	MagiciaN^ Jay Bee Eye! 18:43 20/7/2003	World Cyber Games 2002 18 World Cyber Games Qualifier 25 to play in wcg2002 they got the 25 points to qualify so basically u can say that the 5th place earned them 38 points .... which seems ok to me [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:47 20/7/2003	According to alphas logic if a UK team that theyd humped at the qualifier showed up at WCG then theyd get more points for placing exactly the same place just because there was UK competition there... Maybe if it was 18 points for the qualifier and 25 for the WCG it would be more realistic, its all about the relative level of the competition not just the fact that they got more points because they managed to qualify. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 18:48 20/7/2003	But as deebo said they apparently arent trying to make them realistic or accurate at all its just for s***s and giggles or something :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	deebo Mel Gibson UKTerrorist 18:52 20/7/2003	nah mate its a rough yardstick, not a proven scientific measure. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 18:53 20/7/2003	why bother having a points system at all ? To show how the rankings are calculated, and to show how far clans are from the clan above and below them. Anyone can see that coming first in the qualifier is nowhere near the achievement that coming 5th in the actual event is. Especially considering the competition at the events. As I said, these are UK rankings so there's a bias towards UK competitions (i.e. where other UK clans are involved). If this was an international rankings system a lot more points would be awarded for the international competitions. Don't look at it in terms of individual events, think of the qualifiers as part of the main event. So qualifiers - 25, WCG 2002 (overall) 43. 4k already have the point advantage over the other UK clans for winning the qualifier. If we then gave them 100 or so points for coming 4th in the competition (that no other UK clans were attending), they'd be unrealistically ahead of everyone else. zeNi designed the system so hopefully he can explain it a little better than I can. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	enuex 18:55 20/7/2003	agreed with raizbert - 5th @ ESWC should be worth much more than 1st @ a UKT LAN, rather than just 1 pt, the competition and international recognition (and moneh) is much greater for ESWC... [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 19:02 20/7/2003	So it is infact just how well clans do at UK events not how good the clans are ? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 19:09 20/7/2003	It's designed to show how good UK clans are relative to each other. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 19:11 20/7/2003	But it doesnt. I thought we'd established that already ? :P [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 19:15 20/7/2003	So in what way are you saying the current rankings don't reflect the UK scene? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 19:24 20/7/2003	The rankings may be roughly correct but as I said why bother having a points system if your just choosing the points based on the UK competition which in no way reflects the actual difficulty of the event. But as your just refusing to accept anything I'm saying I don't see much point in arguing this without end :P Im just saying what I see as faults in the system whether you accept the criticism is entirely up to you... [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 19:33 20/7/2003	I do see what you're saying, we had this discussion in the staff channel earlier. The points given do reflect the difficulty of the events, but delibrately less so in the international competitions as there's usually only one UK clan there. We include the international competitions because clans often go to these in place of UK events, and because their placing at these events is an achievement in itself and puts them head and shoulders above the other UK clans. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Aunt 19:36 20/7/2003	hmm just take it as an overall points qual + event [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Otis Rush! 19:53 20/7/2003	you only have to look at that ranking table to realise its total bs ;/ nm good that someone made an effort but going to i16 to get points?!? pls [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	-m0o.Rob- 19:55 20/7/2003	KD's point is completely right why dont you just admit to someones constructive critisism for once [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	cobbeh fluid element 19:57 20/7/2003	maybe there should just be a 'uk' system and 'international' system, kinda like home/away [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	cobbeh fluid element 19:59 20/7/2003	basically events that only include uk teams should be in the uk ranking and the internation is things like CB Open Cup, CPL, etc [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Smittins 20:02 20/7/2003	lol points from an i-series tourney, quality [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Choke\|MaT Choke 20:03 20/7/2003	Atemi: I dunno bout including the CSGN championship thing cos would u include both the championship thing and the division placements or just one and not the other? The championship cup decides who wins CSGN Season 1, not the invite premiership, so that should be used in the rankings really. Season 1 isn't over yet...... [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Otis Rush! 20:07 20/7/2003	oh and KD is completely correct. The points idea seems to be just picked out randomly and the positions and points bare very little representation on actual reality. So what if 4K end up miles ahead of every other clan because of large international events. That maybe because they are miles ahead of every other clan... Just to show you how much nonsense the rankings are there is a merc team in the top20 :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	alpha Da boss Inspired Gaming 20:07 20/7/2003	Rob I've answered his points, and explained why I think the system works how it does. Most people seem to agree that the end result is reasonable. What is your point exactly? Smittens: i16 wasn't included. Otis: if the rankings are so wildly different to actual reality what do you think the current order/points should be? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Psy^ xtreme9.uk 20:08 20/7/2003	I-eS actually got 25 + 18 for their ranking. They couldn't have got to the WCG without winning the qualifiers, therefore they couldnt have got 18 without winning the initialy 25. So it comes down to 4K actually gettin 43 [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Psy^ xtreme9.uk 20:11 20/7/2003	and lol at a clan spending £300 to get their name on a ranking website. :( [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Turk1sh 20:15 20/7/2003	coolies but some of those teams aint alive anymore [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Turk1sh 20:16 20/7/2003	my bad they do lol :D [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	deebo Mel Gibson UKTerrorist 20:55 20/7/2003	why not just give 4K a bijillion points and be done with it. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	KD 21:21 20/7/2003	Its not about 4k..its just easiest way to demonstrate the point because of their position. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Necroboy fightclubclan 21:55 20/7/2003	What about clanbase opencup 2003? you adding it when its finished? Cus all the uk clans out already yeah? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Stono 22:06 20/7/2003	I did ask that the winners of the CSGN Cup be given the points... ill talk to UKTerrorist [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Stono 22:18 20/7/2003	Cup will be added as a seperate competition (I think). unless that is true, in which case it will be ok :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	AirHorN #Game2XS 23:19 20/7/2003	the CUP means nowt though just a chance for lower div to play others, most prem teams can beat the other teams imo [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Atemi ForsakeN 00:35 21/7/2003	ye will be a bit stupid should say a team who came 2nd in csgn prem get no points and then a team comes say 3rd in the championship cup thing cos 2nd in the prem is much more an achievement than the team who say comes 3rd in the cup thing that beat aload of mediocre clans in divison 4 or wotever. oh and ripper it aint just winners of i-events who get points cos we got 6 i think for 3rd at i15, dunno if thats a mistake tho or not. pls dont mention it to zeni, dont wanna think we wasted our 60 quid [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Myers Saviour of UKT UKTerrorist 00:51 21/7/2003	I agree with KD here, but cba to complain about it anymore :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Choke\|MaT Choke 03:12 21/7/2003	yeah airhorn, but most of the div1 teams were better than half of the ones in the "invite" premiership imo. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Ripper Rush! 10:34 21/7/2003	only teams any of div1 were better than were so19 and kensai, rest were all better and deserved to be in the premier. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	AirHorN #Game2XS 11:24 21/7/2003	wot atemi said in first para ^ but yeah i agree a few teams from div1 shoulda been in the invite but u cant give out points for a crappy end of season mess about ( known as a cup). lc > the rest imo. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	raizbert 12:56 21/7/2003	i-series is about one thing. watered down krony for £1.50 :D [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Scara North & South 13:03 21/7/2003	North & South rock :D [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	nerf Clan ONE 13:11 21/7/2003	I fully agree with Alpha. The system is not 100% perfect (what system could be?), but the end result appears to be a decent estimation. You can pick holes in it here and there, but I think it does the job well enough. The rankings don't actually mean much/anything, it's just nice to have. [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Ripper Rush! 13:12 21/7/2003	thats where you're wrong nerph, if people are willing to spend 60 quid to get into the rankings then they must be worth it!? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	nerf Clan ONE 13:52 21/7/2003	touché Ripphar [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	N3M- endeffect 22:42 21/7/2003	Sorry but where is the logic in saying i16 doesnt count because majority were mix teams then add kirby esports? :o i was under impression that they were a mix team for ukt :s Barcodes 5th yey :) [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]
	Stono 17:10 22/7/2003	AirHorN its not an end of season cup its how CSGN works The idea is if a clan was missplaced it gives them the chance to win overall. Its gives everyone, regarless of division a chance to win CSGN Surly if a clan from division 1 beats the premier winners they deserve to win CSGN? [ Comment: Report \| IP: Logged ]

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