Shaguar's Show Me The Money

Posted by NoToRiOuS at 17:57 24/12/2003.

Over at GotFrag, Shaguar has written a very interesting article. It discusses the way CS is heading as a spectator sport and his views on the good and the bad. He talks about the money system in CS, and suggests some fixes including a possible introduction of a CS-pro mod. The article is very well written and definitely worth a read. Here's a short teaser:

The most notorious “alternative” (alright, I’ll stop beating around the bush; exploit) first introduced by these teams was money control. One of the first instances that money control became so significant was at the CPL Winter 2002 event. Team 3D, using a new, bland, rather mundane tactic managed to take home 1st place in a slow game against GoL on de_dust2. After a strong CT half, and a T pistol round loss, 3D camped the B halls with deagles in hopes of taking out as many pushing GoL members as possible, while camping out the round time, essentially drastically depleting GoL’s finances. Whether or not the tactic was really first introduced by 3D is irrelevant, but the tactic was smart, and my hat goes off to Moto and the gang for using it as effectively as they did. But frankly, it was uneventful, boring, and most importantly, slow.

Pro Mode Counter-Strike:

Valve doesn’t want to change the entire money system? They are content with the system and how it is used on cs_maps? Create a Professional Mode of Counter-Strike, as ID Software did for Quake 3, with all the necessary changes to fix the money system and other aspects of the game that need changed for competitive play (The dreadful Riot Shield for example).

To read the full article move your mouse pointer here and click.

Comments

HeNdie
Void
17:58 24/12/2003
santa is still in china WTF! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
NoToRiOuS
2 COOL 4 SKOOL
UKTerrorist
17:58 24/12/2003
go read it, nice article. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
DoZ
Anti-saviour of UKT
18:02 24/12/2003
Great read. Pro-mode is the way to go [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Smiffeh
Game2XS.Monkey Magic
18:09 24/12/2003
bah bumhug [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
fez
18:19 24/12/2003
good read [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Turk1sh
18:20 24/12/2003
that is 1 of the best articales ever made in cs history hes hit the nail on the head and whacked it so hard its gone threw the wood and come out of other side. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Scam
18:33 24/12/2003
o/ I think as one guy said in the comments there, a pro-mode could split the community (for the better maybe?), but a change to CS as a whole would be better imo.

We can only pray for 1.3 jumping and money fixes :'( [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
DoZ
Anti-saviour of UKT
18:40 24/12/2003
1.5 pistols, 1.3 jumping, 1.5 radios, 1.3 gun accuracies (bar pistol + snipers), 1.6 auto-sniper accuracies, slightly reworked money system (or totally new way of scoring matches so the current problems are meaningless), 1.3 walking (+moveup), 1.6 maps (remove aztec completely though) etc etc [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
RH
Landed
18:45 24/12/2003
yea its so very true i remember watching x3 vs nip alot more exciting than these days [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
eKs
19:01 24/12/2003
Article is from teh heart baby yeeeaa!

1.3 jumping :z :S :( [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
dL
Atari.Crew
19:04 24/12/2003
yeh, luck shows its ugly face a tad more these days also - excitement seems to have been dragged out the game.

what DoZ said! apart from 1.3 jumping was silly :) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
RH
Landed
19:05 24/12/2003
1.3 jumping owned bought more skills to the game :P [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
MaCcA^
19:13 24/12/2003
not so much a pro mode they should just put new settings down for the de_maps thats all. that way you wouldnt split the community up (altho there doesnt seem to be much of one no more in the UK since by shut down). [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
DoZ
Anti-saviour of UKT
19:15 24/12/2003
f*** splitting the community, valve will destroy the game if there's no pro-mode [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
madmk
19:25 24/12/2003
I said make a pro cs about 10000 years ago [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Gilga
19:30 24/12/2003
why 1.3 gun accuracy, almost every1 seems to prefer 1.6 accuracy [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Scam
19:39 24/12/2003
i think 1.6 accuracy with 1.3 jumping could very well be immense :x [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
DoZ
Anti-saviour of UKT
19:40 24/12/2003
Totally new accuracies would be better. Recoil's s*** [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
akujii0r
Infinity-eSports
19:41 24/12/2003
cs is less random than ever ;O [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
ExistenZ
19:43 24/12/2003
old pistols rocked. so did the jumping.. i miss the days that a skilled player armed with only a deagle could carve up a uk public 60-0 p*** easy just bouncing around aiming at heads. now cs is just boring. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Moo^
fibre
19:43 24/12/2003
Thats a good read tbh [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Anisty-
Prozac
20:02 24/12/2003
excellent article [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Noah-
r4ngers
20:05 24/12/2003
THATS IT THATS THE ONE
hes sooooo right, sort it out valve :| [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
dL
Atari.Crew
20:10 24/12/2003
1.6 is a mess. I can't really explain it because im not a super dooper expert or whatever but it seems slower than any previous version and just generally less smooth and FREEEE!! Wish 1.5 and its real aim gets real kills was back *sniff*

wont somebody think of the children! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
dL
Atari.Crew
20:14 24/12/2003
oh and congrats on a newspost people liked NoToR - a rarity around these parts ;D [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
duck.
Online Multiplayer Gaming
20:21 24/12/2003
1.6 netcode [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
stabby
Virgins!
20:24 24/12/2003
took a while to read but good point. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
ProdiGy
20:44 24/12/2003
nice read [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
longshot-
21:33 24/12/2003
we got all the ideas we need but we havent got anyone to put it into action, we cant rely on valve. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
NoToRiOuS
2 COOL 4 SKOOL
UKTerrorist
21:49 24/12/2003
aye netcode, tho i dont like the low rate fgts you get running around with 20 ping yet lagging like they have 400. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Del`
Sniper's Alley
00:14 25/12/2003
I miss 1.3 totally.

I would like back:

Fast Walk, x-hair on unzoomed awp, fast weapon switching, 1.3 pistols, smgs from beta (ie sniping with mp5), rifles from 1.3, netcode from 1.3 (with the improvements made between 1.5 and now), smaller hitboxes, shooting while running as accurate as 1.3, auto snipers from 1.6.

I'm sure these could be done (apart from the netcode) outside of Valve. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
OverlordRob
Asylum.uk
00:32 25/12/2003
1.3 was jsut fun cos a) u can jump all u want b) awp + deagle is so quick to sdwitch and lethal (but does require skill of some kind) and c) headshots registered more than 1,5

1.6 is nice cos headshots register more but still got gun switching of 1.5 :( [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Chris0
01:02 25/12/2003
Bet this wouldnt be out if NoA were CPL Champs, but we will never know! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
commentmaster
01:08 25/12/2003
del sit down please.

good article [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
funky
01:10 25/12/2003
sexcellent article [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Smiffeh
Game2XS.Monkey Magic
01:11 25/12/2003
maybe its just because CS is really bad and people are starting to realise [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
funky
02:12 25/12/2003
go play star wars james! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Coopsy
Landed
02:15 25/12/2003
ye real good read :)

thing is.. do any of us know anyone who knows valve well enough to put pressure on seeing as they dont seem to read/listen to what anyone else says and counter-strike.net is officially the worst site in the world...worse than ukcsa (giggle) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Elem
02:24 25/12/2003
Best written article relating to cs ive ever read. Really intelligent. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
N3M-
endeffect
04:16 25/12/2003
tbh, noone stopped all the 'pro' teams from reverting to 1.3 or better still a independent modder to remake cs as he saw fit?

just an idea :/ maybe like "Counter-Strike PRO MODE!" [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
N3M-
endeffect
04:28 25/12/2003
ok i read it now but at least we think alike? :P [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Benji-
05:04 25/12/2003
feel the red karma u c***s [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
`NWA
05:16 25/12/2003
err 1.3 hitboxes were terrible "hs from 1.3" you mean shoot them in the stomach and get a HS, meanwhile crouching next to a wall so your hitboxes are f***ed then run out of ammo, get out a nade and prime it and run around like you are invincible. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
DoZ
Anti-saviour of UKT
08:59 25/12/2003
1.3 hitboxes were awful, but the game was better overall. We've had a large enough combination of things that'd work in different patches. It just needs someone to put it together. C'mon BDS! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Pimpboy
feo
11:02 25/12/2003
i been saying the money system is s***e for aaaaaaaaaages now its the reason why adrenalin do as good as they do its the resoason why vesslen is so high regarded as a tactician if you took this advantage away vesslan would be half the player he is altho quick and xqter would be better for it because they are clearly all about the fast paced aim.

SK are mainly all deathmatch players and its sad to see them playing the money like they do cos its not amazing to watch but fair play to them you do what you have to do.
4kings would benefit from a money change because tactically towards money i think they are very new (compared to the big boys) you can see it when 4k are faced paced and do nice rushes and decoys they are far superior than their cpl placing suggests.Gone are the days when mangiacapra would not think twice at pushing more and being creative as a terrorist but i think sometimes when money is tight hes more hesitant than he used to be thus not able to highten his confidence in game cos we all know when confident what marc can do. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Necroboy
fightclubclan
11:42 25/12/2003
I think most of us have known about the money "bug" for a while. I remember seeing soa use it like 2 years ago at cpl. Personally I have decided that I would rather not play than to camp out rounds because its so damn boring. Its also the reason why fcc leave any pcw when the opponents camp out rounds. Camping out, might allow you to control the opponents money, but it sure as hell dont make the game playable. I remember playing 2s2p in clanbase, I was close to leaving because it was SO boring, Id rather lose than play. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
callous
Specster
12:01 25/12/2003
1.5 anti-cheat, i saw ALOT less cheaters in 1.5 than 1.6.
1.3 jumping and walking speeds. delete aztec:/
1.3 weapon changing too :(

basically 1.3 with decent netcode and that money system [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Bruiser
Xtra
12:41 25/12/2003
cpl was so boring just cause of the s***ty campout rounds

they could just make round time to 1.30 or 2 mins [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
TT
Xtra
13:05 25/12/2003
that wud make it easier for the t's to camp out rounds bruiser. Best thng wud b to change the money. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
WARpeD
13:16 25/12/2003
OK why not do something more drastic, get rid of money completley. Have a wolfenstien system, select your gun at the start of the round OR have a system where as you kill more of the enemy, rescue more hossies or plants more bombs more guns become unlocked.

:P

WARpeD [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
nixoh
enamor
13:25 25/12/2003
Necroboy ffc leave cause ppl camp out rounds? i thought it was cause u were getting wacked by gazzie, o well my mistake.

amazing read by shaG, money system needs a little tweak [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Headshot^Man`
Disturbed
14:02 25/12/2003
if you are refering to their cb/ukie cup match, then you are clueless. if not, my mistake :] [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Necroboy
fightclubclan
14:32 25/12/2003
who is gazzie? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
dL
Atari.Crew
14:33 25/12/2003
nixoh careful lado or your stunning lan performance could be mentioned :$

choke vs enamor @ ukt :D:D gogo [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Necroboy
fightclubclan
15:15 25/12/2003
nixoh, I see. gazzie is from choke. Well ok. I timed out 5 times during the first few rounds and then decided not to play. If you going to make a point, try knowing the details before hand. ul n00b! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
conspiracy
15:48 25/12/2003
i like the way he says cs is a sport in CAPITALS [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
dh
16:20 25/12/2003
Maybe remodify aztec again, make it less fps demanding.
1.6 jumping, 1.3 guns n recoil, 1.6 netcode, 1.5 anticheat, new money system [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Drenz
16:54 25/12/2003
i agree with necro, camping out rounds is pretty boring especially in pcws, i can understand people doin it perhaps in officials and on lan, but in pcw's its pretty dull.... u cud also jst load up champo on a laptop tho ;) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Messiah
Game2XS.Monkey Magic
17:05 25/12/2003
Great article and definately one of the worst things about matches, absolutely hate doing this cos you know its an exploit of the money system so feels like your cheating. As people have said teams been doing this long before 3D did it, I remember 4k(might of been ies at the time) doing it a bit at CPL Summer 2003 especially vs GoL which was almost hide n seek.

Generally matches are boring now, majority of teams doing these boring tactics which consist of a last gasp rush to get the bomb down before 35 seconds up. Cant see how waiting around is fun, totally pointless in my eyes! Fast paced full of action games, much better if you ask me.

Someone make a new money system! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
commentmaster
17:10 25/12/2003
but maybe people need to practice their camp out rounds in a pcw for the officals... pcw = PRACTICE clan war. a place where u get to practice, to some it is just fking about and playing the game like you should. to others its getting your positioning right for the real thing next week. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Messiah
Game2XS.Monkey Magic
17:12 25/12/2003
Yeh cos you need weeks of practice to get those time outs right! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
commentmaster
17:16 25/12/2003
you certainly do. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Rav0r
Croydon
19:25 25/12/2003
craigy takes it up the jacksy [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Rav0r
Croydon
19:25 25/12/2003
just 1.1 with no hitboxbug *<:oD [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
ExistenZ
22:02 25/12/2003
wtf is elem doing posting thought he was dead?!
:D
joke mark ;P [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
nixoh
enamor
22:27 25/12/2003
i got some wicked shots of mine from lan thx dl, and i dont even know u let alone know u were at a lan i was. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
8ng
01:26 26/12/2003
played 3 matches tonight and in all 3 i recognised this tactic being used, seems now everyclan in the world will start camping out rounds - even in fun xmas mixes [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Bodkin
2seXeh 2perfoRm
10:14 26/12/2003
Necro... i honestly can't remember camping out 1 round vs fcc u german b******. I dunno wen ur talking about, but the cup game.. no we didn't camp, we were already winning by alot so it wud be boring. If your talking about our game on aztec a year ago, we were T 1st and lost pistol round and all stood next to the doors until 2mins, then ran through them with glocks and won the round. Other than that 1min, i can't remember any time at all when we have camped vs u let alone time-outted. Its just boring, esp vs lesser skilled opposition. We do time out when its worth it though. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Necroboy
fightclubclan
12:07 26/12/2003
hehe. As T on dust2, you timed out the 3rd round after winnning the pistol round and our first eco. Then you timed out every time you lost 2-3 guys and Im sure you camped out an eco too. You didnt rush once, and every attack took 2 minutes to build up. There is nothing wrong with playing like that, Im just saying Id rather lose than play against people who play like that. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Elem
16:26 26/12/2003
I still lurk :) Actually writing a children's book at the moment, its taking up most of my time, quite fulfilling though, and not at all like CS! [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Headshot^Man`
Disturbed
20:12 26/12/2003
i think uk2 got this message, was messing about on one of there servers when a huge message pops up going 'AVOID SLOW PLAY AT ALL TIMES' [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Smiffeh
Game2XS.Monkey Magic
21:09 26/12/2003
LTUK [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
vac
05:11 27/12/2003
Shaguar's Show Me The Pies

More like.. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Smittins
11:22 27/12/2003
"i think uk2 got this message, was messing about on one of there servers when a huge message pops up going 'AVOID SLOW PLAY AT ALL TIMES'"

don't lie Rich you were an admin, stop denying it! :> [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
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