UKTerrorist
Posted by Myers at 19:15 5/12/2004.
Midway over at Gotfrag? has seen fit to cast his fickle pen over this weekend's UK CPL Qualifier. Snippets away:
UK fans won’t love this but come on, who did they beat? GG would love to say they belong in the elite of Europe, but we all know they aren’t there. That leaves an event that 4Kings needed to win just to prove they aren’t going downhill. The new players added around Mangiacapra passed their first test, but not a truly defining test. Can players like aKuJii, Red or even Goodfella and Harriman play up to the level needed against top teams from Sweden or USA and Germany? I’m not so sure.
This event didn’t convince me they are ready. Yes they did the job presented to them but there’s something to be said for quality wins. Does anyone really believe that SK.swe or even 3D or mouz wouldn’t have dominated and won this event? I’m willing to declare they would have won it by greater margins at every step. Confidence is one of the most important things in the game and this will only help that for 4Kings. Still before anyone jumps on the bandwagon, remember this team has a long way to go before rejoining the elite in Europe.
A valid argument? More American pomposity? Read the full article and decide for yourselves.
Comments
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ClanNEW
19:34 5/12/2004
19:38 5/12/2004
19:40 5/12/2004
19:44 5/12/2004
Missing In Action
19:47 5/12/2004
gf de_stroyed those krauts on inferno too [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
19:48 5/12/2004
Online Multiplayer Gaming
19:52 5/12/2004
xtreme9.uk
19:53 5/12/2004
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
19:58 5/12/2004
3D just won WCG, and give them some credit Psy. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
20:00 5/12/2004
20:01 5/12/2004
20:04 5/12/2004
ask urself wot has 4k^ ever won??? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
unicon.cs
20:06 5/12/2004
but that doesn't stop him being a stupid fat american [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
20:07 5/12/2004
lets face it sk were just plain s*** at that tournament and titans didnt practice for it.
maven.....who the f*** ??????? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
xtreme9.uk
20:09 5/12/2004
euthanasia
20:12 5/12/2004
This was possibly the hardest CPL qualifier held for winter with known european teams attending... Take a look at the romainain, turkish, and greek qualifiers.. What have you got against them? I'd much rather be an overrated cs PLAYER than some uneducated, dimwitted teaboy. Got post another article on how good george bush is.
^ lol [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
xtreme9.uk
20:15 5/12/2004
, and he has a point too [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Atari.Crew
20:17 5/12/2004
don't see why the article was posted, 4K attended and won comfortably... I guess they could of sent invitations out to SK to participate aswell, so they had a bigger chance of losing, but I don't see why......
does it really matter? America produces some wicked teams that aren't really rated very high, maybe hes just bitter [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
20:22 5/12/2004
gg [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
20:25 5/12/2004
He most likely thinks that 3D are one of the top 3 teams in the world.
f***ing moron.
midway is far to rated in the us.
[Edited by RoMeRz at 20:19 5/12/2004] [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Anti-saviour of UKT
20:27 5/12/2004
Midway overrated? www.gotmouth.com [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
reSonance
20:28 5/12/2004
20:39 5/12/2004
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
20:40 5/12/2004
3D have won two major competitions now, and finished fairly highly in many others. 3D are a better team in my opinion. I think Midway does have a point, although the article itself, is pretty provocative, does he say anything that's actually wrong? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
20:43 5/12/2004
thats wrong.
3D may be a better in terms of acheivments, but if they played each other now, my money would be on 4k. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Anti-saviour of UKT
20:44 5/12/2004
Would you post a column on UKT about how 3D are pretty s*** just after they won CAL, without having any substance or actual purpose for it? No. Why? Because you're not some yankeedoodle c**ksmith.
Oh wait, that's racist.
Nevermind. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
unicon.cs
20:44 5/12/2004
fatty yanky [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
20:45 5/12/2004
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
20:48 5/12/2004
Well look at the evidence, 3D just won WCG and 4K have yet to finish above 5th? in a major international tournament. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Anti-saviour of UKT
20:50 5/12/2004
I don't follow cs too much anymore, but the last 4K/3D game I remember it went into what, treble overtime? [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
20:54 5/12/2004
Anti-saviour of UKT
20:55 5/12/2004
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
20:58 5/12/2004
Anti-saviour of UKT
21:04 5/12/2004
21:09 5/12/2004
21:17 5/12/2004
...cos 3D didn't win CAL?
Seriously though, 4K has a better chance of winning CPL than 3D does of finishing in the top 5. I respect what midway does for CS but this article is a joke. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Anti-saviour of UKT
21:20 5/12/2004
21:24 5/12/2004
"I think midway's bitter because 4k and GG are still better than 95% of US teams, even though they suck in Europe?" -- Zechs
I recall last summer right before the Qualifiers some person from TSN went around to all the top teams and asked their clan leaders a various allotment of questions. This reporter went to Mangiacapra - how they projected they'd finish at CPL, the response being top FIVE....Reality: 4k couldn't even make it to about the top FIFTEEN, and that was after losing the qualifier...
"4K have pretty much placed consistently at every CPL they've attended and tbh I don't even like 4K in particular, I was routing for GG as 4K would attend anyways." -- b0sh
Just because a team gets to a CPL Qualifiers, doesn't mean than they are amongst the top. At ESWC UK Qualifiers, 4k couldn't make it past WOLF, a nascent team that didn't last very long in the actual ESWC itself for whatever reason. While the two teams mentioned above are quite good, they are not by any means amongst the top.
"Why bother writing an article just to cause an argument, that’s the only reason you've wrote it midway... "
It was an article that echoes the opinions of so many gamers, both in the UK-community and outside of it. Sadly, the UK is probably amongst the least competitive and amongst the lower bracket of statistically skilled countries. Looking around Europe w/o venturing to Asia or the Americas we can just take a view to mouz/titans/sk/eye/a-losers/...I could go on and on...meanwhile the list of the UK teams ends after 4k/TAG (who don't make much of LAN appearance)/c4u (who seem to have been half folding for a while now)/calibre...While there are other teams that have indeed taken a noticeable position in UK ranks such as LastChance, they still are only scraping to just lose against mixes or GG, who aren't world class...
I digress.
"Basically America is full of fat idiots and UK owns them pld" c0pe
This comment is both unnecessarily hostile and abrasive, not to mention inflammatory when no other insulator comments have been thrown before. Just asking, but when did 4k actually beat a US team? Going to the most recent CPL – 4k consistently placed in the lower ranges of teams, where’s whomever from the US was at least above. To use for an example, zEx, a team who haven’t been doing as well as they used to, still have a world-title to show for their accomplishments. 4k win nation events only after they get knocked into the losers bracket first (et UKT LAN) or merely their own qualifiers. With exception to c4u/wolf, there haven’t been teams that this small section of Europe has produced to even make an impression on the global E-Sports community.
Ryandeean made solid points. He’s able to make an argument because there isn’t actually any real evidence to go against him. You can flame all you want, but 4k and GG aren’t the top teams. Go to the revered World Rankings of teams or players. You won’t find a member of the UK on there – or if you do they were only recently added. The players you see someone from the US, and then the rest affectively Scandinavians.
Taking a glance at what the community agrees with, go to the recently lauded ‘Best of British’ CS film. The stars there are a few players from various squads, and then two people from TAG, two from 4k, and then I believe the entire of c4u. As long as we stare at media, take the highly appraised ‘Ruination’ who included people from Rival and zEx and NOA, but no UK player as far as I remember…doesn’t that say anything?
As for Midway, he’s voiced the opinion of so much of the community. Maybe his article was too severe for some of you, but it that’s part of journalism. We get to see how obdurate some of you are, just how entranced you are in your own convictions to even briefly consider his view. This is such an ambiguous topic, and yet the majority of you who responded treated like Midway’s article was an act of war, a sign of aggression that just had to be lashed back with hateful and borderline discriminatory remarks. If you look at the standings right now without any loyalty, 4k seems posed to do decent at the final CPL in Dallas. Though if you look at their competitors, you can’t really think that they will really does that well?
To address directly the UK event, it was somewhat of a joke in contrast to other events. The original seeding was a laugh. How the officials who are running the event seed do Landed above teams such as Last Chance or c4u? Furthermore, how is 2s2p and LANimals waitlisted, when teams such as Restyled and calibre are left out to dry. It’s a UK affair, though only one in every four teams to attend are actually from the home teams country, how is that fair? Anyone who was remotely realistic about the event would’ve forecast that it would just be 4k vs. GG in the end, that you could’ve killed the entire three days, popped it into one game, and saved time. There wasn’t any point. When the UK is only able to produce one team that can make it past the first stage, where is the evidence to oppose Midways evermore cogent opinion?
In essence, the UK scene needs major assistance if it is to stay alive for much longer with any shred of respect when compared to the close neighbouring Scandinavia. By no means are 4kings on par with most teams of it’s professionalism out there. GG are good, but if they are pitted against SK like c4u was, it won’t be such a stunning outcome. Those who are so derogatory about the US or whomever need to let themselves have loose and stop being so narrow-minded and loyal (for lack of better phrases). There is no ammunition to fuel a debate against the facts prevailing that 4k aren’t top of their tier. Look at history, there’s just nothing. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
21:25 5/12/2004
21:25 5/12/2004
21:35 5/12/2004
21:37 5/12/2004
Anti-saviour of UKT
21:39 5/12/2004
Choke
21:45 5/12/2004
Did he watch any of the games? Did he notice they didnt come 2nd, or 3rd? nm lol, that bit made me laugh neways :) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
21:59 5/12/2004
22:01 5/12/2004
as for gg, they are a class team, no question, just not very competitive on an international scale. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
22:05 5/12/2004
BLACKLiGHT
22:08 5/12/2004
22:12 5/12/2004
22:40 5/12/2004
22:50 5/12/2004
22:52 5/12/2004
22:55 5/12/2004
secondly, why can't good UK teams prove themselves in the UK First? The qualifiers are there to give the teams who can't afford to go on their own a chance of gaining e-respect if nothing else...meanwhile there were 4 uk teams...
Guess the coming eswc quals will be the time for all these great english teams you are going on about to prove themselves [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
22:55 5/12/2004
secondly, why can't good UK teams prove themselves in the UK First? The qualifiers are there to give the teams who can't afford to go on their own a chance of gaining e-respect if nothing else...meanwhile there were 4 uk teams...
Guess the coming eswc quals will be the time for all these great english teams you are going on about to prove themselves [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
23:06 5/12/2004
23:25 5/12/2004
"teams from Sweden or USA and Germany"
"SK.swe or even 3D or mouz "
hows he even comparing 3d to sk :S hows he even comparing america to anywhere else?
lc c4u or calibre would give 3d a gg [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
23:28 5/12/2004
can ppl start saying who they are quoting from btw. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
23:33 5/12/2004
"""""""""""""""""""""
71
CBerger Today at 5:38 PM EST
cause we all hate you and your fatf*** country
youre lucky uk and us are allies because if tehy weren't the us would have raped you about now, go have a scone, bye.
"""""""""""""""""" [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
23:40 5/12/2004
Point 2) We all seem to like our 4k more than previously thought , go figure. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
00:03 6/12/2004
do alright but dont win [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
00:08 6/12/2004
4k are counter-strikes Tim Henman.
(No sarcasm intended) [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
00:08 6/12/2004
HATE
AMERICAN
NERDS [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
00:13 6/12/2004
00:22 6/12/2004
This is a general to post to anyone questioning 4K's sponsorship.
The 4K sponsorship covers the whole company, not just the CS team. 4K as a company consistently prove to be the most professional team in Europe if not the the World. They have without doubt the best WC3 team in Europe and the Americas, if not the world. They had one of the best RTCW teams in the world. They had one of the best CoD teams in the world. They have now recruited the best two PK players in the UK. And the CS team consistently proves they are within the top 5 in Europe if not the World (Europe is the World in terms of CS). [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
00:24 6/12/2004
On the topic though, I do think 4k have been overrated for some time now, not helped by the immense amount of clan changes. However, this tournament, 4k have shown glimpses of something I haven't seen from then for some time. It's not the fact that they won all their games (something they do fairly regularly over here), it's that they did it in such a convincing manner. To dismiss Asylum (who, lets not forget, beat 4k just a few days before in CSCL) so easily, and then to defeat GG (who they've never beaten before) without much trouble seems to indicate that 4k are actually going to take this CPL seriously for the first time in a while. I'm not saying they'll clearly win it, but I'll be supporting them (and TAG) to do well, and it would be class to see the brits in the team show up the better clans out there (including 3D ;)). [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
feo
00:43 6/12/2004
YES we know 4K are having a bad time of it of late.YES we know they have had alot of roster changes.YES we know the level of competition wasnt the creme of europe.YES we know that the uk sucks at cs at the moment we dont need to hear about it from jumped up americans thx. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
01:37 6/12/2004
Saviour of UKT
UKTerrorist
01:41 6/12/2004
When was the last time they finished in the top 5 of an international event? CPL Summer 03?
4K's cpl performances results have gotten consistantly worse, they need a decent cpl to put them, and the uk, back on the map. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Online Multiplayer Gaming
01:54 6/12/2004
02:24 6/12/2004
4K on the other hand have placed top5 when they were at their peak, and since then have dropped below the bar of top10
on the other hand, midway was too harsh about the qualifier, 4K might be on their way to being good again
I don't think that 3D would be beaten by 4K at this point in time, but I don't think they would win by more than a handful of points either.
oh, and the anti-american comments are really dumb too [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
feo
03:18 6/12/2004
07:35 6/12/2004
twisted Reality
08:28 6/12/2004
Im sure 4kings will do really well in dallas this time around, and shut that idiot up. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
The Anti-DoZ
08:52 6/12/2004
as for the article, i think it's received such a hostile response because it's essentially true. unfortunately it's being mouthed by an abrasive, loud-mouthed (no doubt tubby as f***) f***ing yank which just makes the pill that much harder to swallow.
but then, as doz said... it's not like anyone's gone round screaming "yay 4k are so gonna own up the cpl".
it's probably been written before but it's just pointless and inflammatory. midway pulling out the psych games on eu teams to try and shoehorn a yank side or two into the top ten? i think so.
i think clarkson had the right idea with removing that country from the world map. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
09:12 6/12/2004
The uk scene is getting better just look at the UK team in clanbase they have had some fine wins and in kardy duck etc they have a very good organised team.
It may be hard to swallow the critisms when it comes from the USA but I think he has a point If you watched any of the hltv coverage there were some very ordinary clans at that event.Asylum v 4K was a prime example of a very poor game.4K can only beta who they put up against and the opposition wasnt great at that event.
Anyways gl all uk clans in future events [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
09:38 6/12/2004
id still put sk as the best team in the world by a mile. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
10:45 6/12/2004
Could you be more of a t**t , even if you practiced the art of t**tish thirteen hours a day and then took a bottle full of t**t pills , nearly causing you to overdose from the sheer quantity of t**t pulsating around your body.
Lets talk football. Pete Johnson says to his friend Leo Nash that liverpool are s*** this year , which is fairly there or there abouts in terms of truth. Is he abstract from reality just because he does not play for one of the many many teams who could beat the current liverpool team. No ? *shocked gasp*
So in summation , it's up the wrist valar , not across. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
Anti-saviour of UKT
11:05 6/12/2004
Had 4k said, "well now we've won that we'll win the cpl" then fair enough. And if they have said something along those lines, feel free to point it out and I'll down a pint of eStfu [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
The Anti-DoZ
11:12 6/12/2004
anyway, liverpool have been s*** for at least 15 years so yes, your Pete Johnson is clearly a f***ing idiot, much like you. [ Comment: Report | IP: Logged ]
The Anti-DoZ
11:17 6/12/2004
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